Robb Reviews - Changeling

In case you haven't heard, Angelina Jolie was nominated for Best Actress award for Oscars for her role in this movie. That in mind, I had high hopes for the movie before I watch it.

And I'm very happy to say, I'm not disappointed. Angelina Jolie plays Christine Collins, who returns home one day to discover her nine-year-old son, Walter (Griffith), is missing. Reverend Gustav Briegleb (Malkovich) publicizes Christine's plight and rails against the Los Angeles Police Department for its incompetence, corruption and the extrajudicial punishment meted out by its "Gun Squad", led by Police Chief James E. Davis (Feore). Several months later, Christine is told her son has been found alive. A public reunion is organized by police, who believe the positive publicity will negate recent criticism of the department. Although "Walter" (Conti) claims to be Christine's son, she says he is not. Captain J. J. Jones (Donovan), the head of the LAPD's Juvenile Division, insists the boy is Walter and pressures Christine into taking him home "on a trial basis".

The ongoing story is remarkable as you'll be brought into the realm of how evil and autocratic a certain force can be if left unchecked.

Despite the fact that the movie is pretty length at 141 minutes, but it's definitely eventful and Angelina Jolie's acting is indeed that damn good. It's a movie which is heavy on story plot and little on actions.

It's wonderful for people who wish to enjoy plots and acting skills but would not be advisable if you're into cheap thrills of adrenaline rush as there are no rapid gunfires and fast cars involved.

All in all, I'll say that this movie is pretty heavy but awesome in the same time. Definitely a good watch if you're into period thriller. A 8/10 from me. :)



I feel the sudden itch of talking about this subject today. Lol.

As far as I know, this originated back in the days mIRC was the IN thing. Well, people will get into a channel call #klsex or something then start messaging each other if they wanna have sex (real) but some losers who aren't exactly a good sight for the eyes thought of;

"Hey, why don't we just pretend we're having sex by typing what we do with each other?"

And thus, cybersex was born. Yes, people get the thrill out of typing out what they think they will do if they're on bed with you. Lol. As funny as it sounds, there are people still doing it these days. Lol. I've got to admit, when I was young and curious, I did that too. Heck, back then I wasn't even sure I'm gay but I intended to find out more about sex (you know, before sex-Ed days) and camsex.

Let me share my experience of cybersex. It's not as funny as the one my boss wrote but it's more of a personal humor. Lol. Back then I used a nickname called 'Chris' which is more of a unisex name seeing that it can be Christopher or Christine. And so 'Chris' wandered around some sex channel and people started messaging him/her for cybersex.

Sdy31M : Hey there! Asl pls (it meant age, sex and location)

*Logic tells me that this is a male. As I wasn't sure what was cybersex all about, I played along to learn from the wise ones, lol*

Chris : Hi. I'm 18/f/kl.

Sdy31M : Nice to know you, Chris. What's your cup?

Chris : Huh? <--- The word that totally blew my identity.

Sdy31M : Fuck! You're guy. Fuck off you faggot!


I was 14! My knowledge about human anatomy or sex related issues were that bad that I had no idea what the fuck cup meant. I was scratching my head thinking was he asking about my Milo cup? Lol. Yes, laugh all you want. Well, after awhile I figured out how it worked and it wasn't anything exciting at all. I mean, come on. Pretending like it's really happening just by reading texts? So not gonna work for me. At any rate, if you wanna have more laughs about cybersex, check out here.

P.S. More about phone sex and cam sex soon. Lol


Short Update

As I'm still blogging this from a ancient machine, I cannot update you much on what I've been doing and working on these few days.

However, I'd like to let everyone to know that I'm still safe and sound and not dead yet. Some superstitious people may be saying,

"Choi choi choi! Third day of Chinese New Year talk about death?"

But it's important for me to let you know, cause I just feel like blogging this up. At any rate, look forward for funny things in days to come.. like me trying to sing the song Umbrella by Rihanna, my random new camwhore moments and of course, I'll be spicing things up with a topic of cyber sex, phone sex and camsex.

Nice enough to pique your curiosity? :D


Happy CNY

Seeing that I'm only going to be online once or twice a day in these few days, I'll like to apologize in advance to all my dearest readers for dropping by but not getting to read any new bullshit from me (half of you guys come back for the cute guys pictures).

At any rate, I'd like to wish everyone who celebrate Chinese New Year a Prosperous Ox Year ahead and for others, Happy Holidays!


One of the Reasons I Hate Going Back Ipoh

Is because of the dinosaur I have in Ipoh as a computer.

Booting up = 2 minutes
Starting MSN = 2 minutes
Starting Firefox = 15 seconds
Switching tabs in Firefox lag = 1.5 seconds

Oh my various Gods!

I feel like stabbing myself.

P.S. If anyone wanna ask me yamcha in Ipoh, drop me an email at pcboy(at)yahoo(dot)com . Applicants, please take note of your own appearances especially if you're gay. If you're ugly don't bother emailing me, alright?


About Robb

Hi everyone. I'm Robb.

It's 2009 so I thought it's time I update the intro page about myself. For this entire year, my sidebar's link of About Robb will link to this page directly so I'll try my best to write this blog post well.

I'm 23 years old this year and I stand at 5 feet 10 inches. I weigh about 70kg at the moment but I'm aiming hard to reduce it to 65 again and tone up my body before my birthday on the 21st of May which I hope, I can give myself a present which is a visible 6 pax on my abs. Wish me luck on this as I'm hitting the gym daily at Fitness First.

I'm trying my best to stick to daily workout at least on weekdays

I can be very health conscious and at the same time savor all the delicacies in the world. No one can resist good food but there are consequences to eating excessively. Thus, I tend to be a health freak whenever I feel myself going a little heavy. This is because I used to be very fat. I was so fat, when I walk through a door, I'll get stuck between it. Lol.

That was me, 5 years ago

Thanks to certain scenario in my life I was able to shed off the fats and turned a new leaf. Ever since then, I'm ever vigilant to watch what I eat.

I'm working for one of the best company in Malaysia, Nuffnang. Yes, the blog advertising company every blogger in Malaysia uses to make some side income from their blogs. Why do I say it's the best company? Well for instance, my colleagues are a bunch of freaks that I'd love to hang out with every single day and I belong there too. Our work culture is very different as all of us are like a family and we poke (not the ass) each other for fun and talk nonsense while we work. Every single day, we try to have lunch together with everyone so we can bond with each other better.

Seriously, my colleague rocks!

My role in the company is challenging. I'm in charge of events, contests occasionally and to deal with blogger relations be it the helpdesk, the general sentiment of the bloggers in Malaysia and etc. Sounds easy? Well, reading it and doing it is 2 different things. But all in all, my passion for my company motivates me ahead to bring out my best to ensure Nuffnang's community is happy and satisfied with us. :)

This was during one of the parties I threw for Maxis Broadband

Okay, enough about my job. More about myself.

I'm gay. Yes. I like guys.

Such as this one

I'm currently in my third year relationship with my dearest, Zach. He's the person I love the most in the entire world. There isn't a single day in my life ever since I was attached to him that I never told him "I Love You" because I believe in expressing what I feel all the time. Our relationship has come a long way and believe me, it ain't easy. Lucky for me, Zach is able to withstand my acts and selfishness, else wise I doubt I'd still be the happiest person on Earth everyday.

Zach and I, Spongebob and Patrick. :D

And last year, we had a son. His name is called Zuzu and he has been a great addition to our family. We're thinking of getting a daughter soon so we can sell the grandchildren for money. Lol. Should we?

Zuzu when he was 8 weeks old

We stay together in a rented unit of a flat at Setapak with housemates. It's not exactly the best place to live but it's affordable and the public transportation is very convenient too (only to KL but not PJ & Subang). Yam cha anyone? :D

I came from a small humble town called Ipoh. Don't bother looking it up anywhere. You'll probably can't find it anywhere. Lol. I'm kidding. It's famous for it's Beansprout Chicken which some call it Chicken Rice. I actually frown at this because most Ipohans I know doesn't eat Beansprout Chicken with rice, but with keuy teow instead. Thus, when people who aren't from Ipoh keep saying Ipoh is famous for Chicken Rice, I get so sick of correcting them. Sigh!

The only notable landmark in Ipoh, I think. Railway station, which is also a pick up point for faggots. Lol

My parents are still staying in Ipoh. I have to admit that I'm not exactly the most filial son as I'm not even consistent of visiting them be it monthly or every 3 months. It's like once in a blue moon that I will go back to Ipoh. At the moment I'm typing this, I think it has been 3 months since I went back. I feel bad actually. But the problem is, as much as I miss my parents, once I arrive in Ipoh and see them, the longings for them have been answered and hence, a void rises instead.

The void is - I had nothing to do back in Ipoh. The computers are outdated and very slow. I can't work much nor chat efficiently (blogging is even more difficult). I practically have no friends left in Ipoh since I wasn't exactly the most sociable kid back when I was in school since I was a fat kid. Thus, most of the time I dislike going back because I will be bored right after I manage to see my parents. Yes, I know it's a lousy reason, but as I've said, I'm not the best son in the world either. But this year, I plan to change and try to go home more often than before. Mum and dad, please forgive me?

I have a love-hate relationship with my sisters, especially my elder one. We will never be on the same side of an opinion most of the time and she used to force her view onto me which I never really like before. As time passes by, she doesn't do that anymore but due to bitter past, I'm still skeptical of her. Lol. Sorry sis!

My younger sister is a sweet girl. She celebrated the 2009 New Year with me and she showed me that she's very independent and very capable of taking care of herself. I'm really proud of her. Sis, you go girl! :D

I'm a sucker in making purchases. I tend to spend more than what it's necessary to buy things that I might not necessary need in my life such as spending RM125 for a Topman T-Shirt in Singapore while I can get it here in Malaysia for RM100 or paying RM25 for a pair of shades at Petaling Street just to know the next stall sells it for RM15. Please, if you see me buying unnecessary and unwise purchases, save me!!!

I'm a fucking lousy shopper

For entertainment, I like spending my time at Pavilion, KL as I find it spacious and filled with faggots for my eyes to feast on. I enjoy movies and thus occasionally Zach and I will go for movie dates be it just the two of us or with friends. I also like to play strategy games be it in computers or even card games. Yes, I'm a nerd cause I also play Magic The Gathering. Lol. Guess I'm going to be a virgin forever. *refer video below*

Well, I guess this sums up about me. If you'd like to know me, I welcome you to try as I'm pretty snobbish especially to other gays if you don't exactly have a fancy face. So if you think you're not a pretty sight, it'll be best if you choose not to contact me as I may ignore you or reply with sarcasm. For others, I'd welcome you to be my friends, but I apologize in advance as I tend to be busy at times and I may not be an ideal friend to chat with in the Internet unless it's work related. But nevertheless, we might still click along. You wanna know me better? You can send an email to me by referring to my sidebar. :)

I hope reading this post enlightened you more about me.

P.S. I'm a camwhore.


If I had an ABSOLUTE EXTREME life..

If I had an ABSOLUTE EXTREME life... I'd be a serial flasher!!

Jeng jeng jeng!

No no no. I'm just kidding. Lol.

Seriously, if you ask me, what kind of extreme or challenging life I would have want to have, I'd have to say I wish I'm a treasure hunter. I mean, living a life like Indiana Jones hunting down treasures is fun and exciting isn't it?

Especially the part where you run away from rolling giant boulders

Well, honestly I would not have dare voiced out this little extreme secret of mine if it isn't for Rexona Absolute Challenge Contest. I'm so tempted with the prizes that they're offering if I win cause, if I do, I'll be the next Edison Chen.

No la! I'm not flashing my flesh for you guys to see or showing off my conquests. I mean, like Initial D? Drifting! Yes! The winner of this contest gets a Full Day Car Drifting Course. No kidding! This is definitely an experience of a lifetime that I want to achieve. Hell, I doubt you can learn this in the streets that easy. Heh

Equipped with a Rexona Extreme Survival Box, I'm set to do my best as an extreme challenger.

So what's inside the survival kit? There are a few items in it such as a compass, a Swiss Knife and 2 Rexona Men deodorant.

Well, a compass is no doubt important for bearings and map reading when you're tracking a treasure ain't it? A Swiss knife is very hand as it has so damn many tools within it, I'm surprised there isn't a tube of lubricant in it as well. Lol.

Last but not least, the equally important deodorant. Why? Treasure hunting is a hard job dude! You're gonna sweat your balls off when you're running away from that giant boulder and swinging your whip left, right, center! And when you sweat that much, guess what? BO kicks in! You're so screwed! I'm not. Cause I have Rexona Men deodorant with me. Hehehe.

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm off to treasure hunting in the dark caverns of mystery (which somehow has a wardrobe in it).

P.S. I bet some of my regular readers was guessing my extreme life would have been to have a different fuck buddy every night, right?


Fuck Buddies

Warning! More cute guys' pictures. Stay out if you're insecure about your own looks, dudes.

I'm going into a deeper understanding of the gay community which might be taboo. So if you don't wish to know or you're easily disgusted by sex or too inline with society's norms, I highly advise that you stop reading and go watch Sesame Street.

Let's define fuck buddy. He's the person that you look for, for 1 particular purpose only. To fuck. No strings attached. No feelings involved. Don't talk about love, some not even friendship. Just pure sex. As simple as that.

Common for the gay community especially for the experienced ones. Newbies might frown upon mention of this as most of them still believe in fairy tales where a prince charming will find him and they live happily ever after but sadly, we live in a very real world.

As I've mentioned prior to this, gay relationships are mostly sparked by sex or sexual appeal. Then they jump into a relationship with the excuse that they had shared the same bed together. After awhile they can't stand each other and break each others hearts. And the vicious cycle continues. Most gays grew tired of this routine and they realized that why not just skip the relationship part and just enjoy the sex which does not break each others heart?

One night stands usually happen for these peeps and if they enjoyed it totally, encore might happen and voila, you found yourself a new fuck buddy. You're not attached to each other, you are not responsible for each other, you're only seeing the other guy because he's hot and for the sex. Simple as that.

As much as this might disgust some of you, this happens a lot in the gay community and as well as in the straight community for those who are really active in their sex lives.

As far as most people know, this is no doubt morally wrong as sex without love is definitely frown upon by society. But the last time I checked, so is homosexuality. Pardon me for being vocal on my stand, but I think people should be allowed to do what they want as long as they do not violate another person's rights to do the same. And of course, protection is necessary for those who are swinging left, right and center all the time.

I have to admit that I don't exactly have any fuck buddies when I was single and since I'm attached to Zach, I don't really know exactly the feelings of going around being fuck buddy with other gays. If I do, believe me, I'd love to share.

I think I'm just crapping nonsense today. Sorry for wasting your time. I hope you guys enjoyed the pictures of cuties for your eyes to feast on, girls and gays.


Sugar~ Honey Honey~

Warning! This post is for matured audience only. Kids, stay out.

Sugar and honey anyone?

Well, I meant to say money actually.

People can do a lot of things for money. They can kill, they can betray their families and they can even sell their bodies for money. What I want to ponder with my dear readers today is the topic of sugardaddy.

Yeap, the guy with money, but old

This technically applies to both males (gay normally) and females.

Of course, the society's perception on sex trade in Malaysia is entirely negative. It's viewed as a dirty business and the people who are selling are dirty whores, sluts and despicable. But if you actually think of it in whole, how different are we? Some of us who work for companies, we're selling our services as well, isn't it? Our tools of trade are our learned skills and experience and so are prostitutes. Business owners have to sell their time and energy to convince and satisfy clients. Isn't there a common goal in all kinds of jobs? To satisfy another party!

Well, seeing that the goal in occupation is mainly the same, satisfying others so you can earn, why would people view prostitutes as a despicable job? Well, religions contributed to it and of course, the many years of social taboo that sex is supposed to be sacred and you should not have sex with another person other than your spouse. But if you really look at it logically and objectively, you'll find that sex trade exist the same way business does. There's demand for it and they supply it.

My point is, we're all slaves to money. Some may say they will never sell their body for money and hey, I respect that cause that's your choice and principle. But do not impose your principle and views on another to belittle others for what they do because you too will do unimaginable things for your own needs.

Off with the whores, I'm supposed to talk about sugardaddies.

Many young girls and gays dream of finding their prince charming who is handsome, fit, wealthy with great personalities. Reality check - It's almost close to 0% for all those combination. Most people who are handsome and fit might not be wealthy. If they are, I bet their personality sucks due to the fact they have every single thing in the world and that environment really nurture bad ass personalities. People with charming personalities tend not to be good looking and fit as it's God's way of making sure the world is fair.

Seriously, if you find someone this good looking, he's probably climbing his career ladder and doesn't have much spare for your luxury dream life you're craving for

My question is, will you marry a person who's 10 years (or more) older than you because of the fact that he's wealthy? I'll make it a very real case, he's not good looking, he's successful in business that means he's balding and has a beer belly due to the fact that he is good at entertaining his clients at pubs.

The bright side is, he is wealthy with Rolls Royce and Lamborghini at home, offers you a Platinum Credit Card under your own name, gives you an allowance of 10k a month (negotiable) owns houses in every state in Malaysia and more(add your own fantasy).

Technically saying, you nail a sugardaddy, you're set for life!

If you say no without even thinking, I'd view you as shallow unless you're richer than what I'm trying to describe, LOL. Those with strong principle that I must be independent on not marry someone because of his money are no doubt very strong willed people. They will work hard and hopefully they will earn as much as what the old man might have give him/her in.. probably 10 to 15 years time if lucky? Those that dive in right away will be viewed as money minded, but it's to gratify their needs and crave for luxury in life which I do not look down upon. But this action clearly shows that if you accept, you're dependent on the old man for a long time and as such, you're subject to his orders and command to a certain extend.

Authority. Everyone hates it...

At any rate, I'm really interested with what you guys might say for this option. Let me put the question properly.

Would you marry (move in if you're gay) with a guy 20 years older than you that does not exactly excel in the looks and body department but has over 5 billion worth of property and wealth who of course, is not stingy to show you his love through material forms?

Anxious to read the comments

Drunk @ Ruumz

Ruumz is a social networking website by Malaysia.

To finally have a local social networking website that can bring people together in terms of entertainment, events and contests is like a dream come true.

The best part of all, they gave me free booze during their launch last night. I was going red wine all the way till I almost crash. But it was a launch like no other as all my colleagues and friends were having fun.

We were dancing away to the tunes in Mist Club and on the way back, my drunk colleague kept talking nonsense to our delight. Some of the things he said;

Patrick : Rachel! Rachel! Have you seen my seat belt?

Me : What the fuck are you asking her for? She's sitting in the front seat and you're behind! Lol.


Patrick : Fuck, I think I kissed several girls just now. *Shows me his camera* Who's this girl ah?

Me: Fuck! That's our colleague! Lol

I was so drunk that the moment I reached home, I fell asleep right away.

Zach wasn't happy though. He insisted that I take a shower before I sleep which I didn't do initially. He protested by sleeping on the sofa in the living room. I woke up at 3AM because no one was sleeping beside me. Rushed out to ask Zach to sleep in the room and took a shower because that's the only condition he'll sleep back in the room.

I'm sorry dear for being drunk. :P

P.S. I was so drunk, I think Sixthseal gave me a blowjob, did he?


Nokia 5800 Xpress Music Is Here!

Being a person who put up events once in awhile for bloggers I tend to observe every public gimmick other people put up at times. Most of the time, things are pretty much the same but what I saw during the Nokia 5800 Xpress Music Launch was way cool from all the gimmicks and launches I saw before.

They set up a teaser at Pavilion's Bukit Bintang entrance for about a week with a huge cloth covering it with the text - 'Be Here on 9th of January 2009 at 7pm' and truly people are crowding the place at the fixed time.

The teaser set up

It started up with a few funky looking adolescences dancing street style in front of the set up stage then the launch kicked off with StrikeForce from Singapore bringing the beat with awesome drumbeats. It was a performance like no other and I bet everyone who saw it agree with this.

It doesn't sound impressive on video, but if you were there during the launch, you'd have agreed with me it was awesome

Well, gimmick being gimmick, it was real catchy to draw the attention of the public. Then we were addressed by Vlasta Berka, the GM of Nokia Malaysia to introduce the features of the new Nokia 5800 XpressMusic. It retails at RM 1,499 and features a 3.2" touchscreen with vibrating feedback. It also comes with a 3.2 MP camera. However, the best thing about this deal is that Nokia is giving away 1,000 DRM songs for free with the phone!

That's Vlaska giving a speech up there. Pic rippled from

To be honest, I've always been a great fan of Touchscreen phones. Nokia has always been the retailer of my choice for mobile phones but sadly, they never had a touchscreen phone available till now! I was so excited when they previewed this during the Silent Halloween last year and I still am. In fact I'm thinking I might just get one if my funds allow me to do so.

Nokia Malaysia really knows how to liaise with the traditional media and the alternative media. Aside from inviting the people from papers, magazines and etc to cover the launch, they also invited bloggers to come along. It's no secret that most people rely a lot on information found on the Internet for their consumption and it's really a good call for Nokia Malaysia to actually reach out to the online communities to spread the word about their new phone.

The bloggers are given a private space as the Nokia Insiders at La Bodega. In La Bodega, we were served tapas. Lots and lots of tapas.

Chicken, anyone? :D

There were a lot of familiar faces as the active bloggers who attend events normally know each other. Among them were Cindy, the Malaysian Dreamgirl.

Yee Hou and Suanie helping themselves with the tapas available.

I was also there because I'm a blogger and also an associate as my company had a very good relationship with Nokia after last year's Silent Halloween. :) I was pretty hungry after going to gym prior to the launch and I wasted no time to consume some cheese and carbs though I know it's not good for my body. :(

KY the makan king didn't waste no time to take picture with their delicious deep fried calamari (made of sotong. I ate them too, I'm a cannibal).

For the main course, we were served a huge ass seafood paella.

Trust me. When I say it's huge ass, it's literal as you can see how many hands we had to put together to match the size of servings.

I walloped quite a number of mussels and lala but I stayed clear off the carbs served. Watching my intake especially in the late evening. :D Wait a second. I think I'm now a certified lalazai.

Lala on left, zai on right = Lalazai

No kidding. Lol.

All in all the night was a good one as bloggers and organizers alike enjoyed each others company really much as we stayed a chatted till midnight. A job well done for David and colleagues for such a successful launch.

Before I end this post, here's a picture why bloggers can crap so much nonsense.

It's because we like to smell, lick and be close to shits. Lol.


The Right to be You:nique

In this century, everybody wants to be different especially bloggers. Yes, people like me.

Face the facts that joining the bandwagon has been the thing of the past. People no longer wish to blend in a group unless they feel strongly for the sentiment. People no longer follow what others say without thinking it over and if people are not happy about something, we voice it out.

Sense of individuality has never been this strong since the dawn of mankind. We all wish to be uniquely identified. No longer would a Chinese man wants to be called an apek but instead his own name, proudly! As each and every one of us wants to be uniquely different, we demand for products and services that cater to our needs and not just the needs of the majority. Large sized man wants malls to have bigger sized clothes, the effeminate guys wants more flamboyant colored clothes and the list goes on, you get me.

Seriously, would you wear this T-shirt out if you're gay? Lol

Today, I'm proud to share with you one of the pioneer service provider that will provide you a personalized, You:nique experience for your financial needs.

Introducing the Alliance Bank You:nique Credit Card.

Yes, that's Zuzu in it. No, they didn't purchase the rights to use my dog for their credit card (though I'd love it if they do, lol), but it's a credit card where you can personalize it all on your own way.

No kidding. You can now have a credit card with whatever picture you want on it. Yes, your grandma, your granddad, your uncle, your enemy, your frenenemy, the kid who lives next door or even the crap you took in your toilet bowl (though the last one isn't exactly something I'd like to see on a credit card). Of course, whatever does not include anything that's harmful in nature which will incite hate, violence or sexually suggestive (though I don't mind the last part, sigh...).

If you ask me, I'm so going to love having a personalized credit card like this. I'd have trouble choosing which picture I want on my credit card. Should I have the one where I'm wearing the Patrick shirt?

The one I took with Firdauz at the Singapore Zoo?

The one I pretended that I was a pole?

The one I was holding a python?

The one with the Nuffnang family?

Or just plain ol' me?

I'm spoiled with choices now. To spoil me even more, I can now personalize my own benefits for my credit card! There are dozens of credit card companies out there giving you best rebates, best interest rates, best rewards and so they claim. But is there one that gives you the best of all three? None. All of them have their catch.

If you ask me, I'd rather choose what benefits do I want from my credit card rather than some companies offering me the lowest interest rate when I don't usually wish to owe money to the bank or reward points when I'm not interested in gifts exchange program. Alliance Bank's You:nique credit card once again step up to address this need to personalized your own credit card benefits!

Wow, first the picture on your card and now this? This has got to be the best news for people with a sense of individuality! You:nique officially launches on January 2009! Look out for the credit card which best represent what you want and what you need. Check out here for more info.